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It occurred in Aspen. There's a long article on init in the Aspen News.
The teacher was charged and after the first incident of allegation.. then other women 'came forward".
Also the 'victim' went back over an d over for more classes and then made her allegations.
I am bothered by the whole thing.
It also brought to mind a post from awhiel ago about a yoga teache r who threw someone to a mat...
The teacher was charged and after the first incident of allegation.. then other women 'came forward".
Also the 'victim' went back over an d over for more classes and then made her allegations.
I am bothered by the whole thing.
It also brought to mind a post from awhiel ago about a yoga teache r who threw someone to a mat...
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 9:11 AMgo figure Aspen
that case will be dismissed probably
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 10:26 AMI have to keep reminding myself that there are Douche Bags EVERYWHERE. Some of them are the "Victims" and some of them are the "Perps".
There's all sorts of things in an Iyengar class with a Male instructor which could be construed as "Sexual".
*** Example: Gabriel Halpern (AWESOME Master Iyengar Teacher with a Great Big Heart) leaning over me and various other women in Halasana, lifting our hips to take the pressure off our Cervical Spine and to teach us how this Asana 'should' feel. Now this puts him at a very interesting angle to us. Our heinies are up in the air and he's straddling our legs (which are behind our heads, toes on the floor) to achieve the adjustment. Sometimes he'll adjust from the front and sometimes from the back in this position. Just depends. Now all we're seeing is his junk straddling right over our heads. Is it a bit Sexual, Yeah... Is that any sort of focus? NO. Anyone with issues being touched shouldn't be in an Iyengar class to begin with. It's a very hands on practice. He never pushed anyone into a position but to adjust us properly, sometimes required an awkward angle for us. There we're so many times I had a secret third grader moment, trying not to crack a smile while watching this man adjust men and women alike. The screen shots were funny. But the point was always to learn. And he did make a joke of it often which made it light hearted and not so strange.
I think when anyone's taking their practice to that next level they really need to be comfortable w/ their physical selves. Lots and LOTS of people aren't comfortable being touched at all. And if they're ignorant to what type of practice they're walking into (after taking the "6 week intro to Yoga YMCA Course) they're in for a monumental surprise. -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 10:45 AMKatrina - Maybe the person who's just taken a class at the Y is innocent not ignorant? Maybe they just haven't been taught by someone who knows more about yoga? Why assume "ignorance" when innocence is more likely? Ignorant people are ignoring and/or denying things, that's not the same as being innocent and just not knowing something. Shouldn't a teacher or studio explain to their students what to expect and what their particular brand of yoga is all about? We have no idea of what really happened in this situation - the guy could indeed have been molesting his students and bullying them after doing so to shut them up or they could be overreacting to normal adjustments - either way, the teacher clearly didn't have a very good rapport with his students for this to happen! Communication goes both ways but the teacher has to assume greater responsibility and also manage the power and trust the position gives him or her with integrity rather than abusing it otherwise he or she isn't really much of a teacher, just someone abusing a position of authority. -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 11:42 AMIgnorance to me is walking blindly into a situation that you could have learned more about to deem whether it's an appropriate situation for you to be in. I think this is more than fair when taking a class that's new. It's our responsibility to educate ourselves, otherwise, yes.. we're being "ignorant". -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 12:43 PMthe thread is about the yoga teacher and the charges
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 4:23 AMKatrina - It seems we understand the words innocent and ignorant somewhat differently. I make a distinction between being innocent (child-like, trusting and open) and ignorant (in denial/rejecting and closed to new information or experiences). It's usually the innocent and not the ignorant that get preyed upon (and often the ignorant doing the preying since doing so often involves a denial regarding personal responsibility and doing harm to others, and lies about how the innocent person brought it upon themselves and is therefore responsible for the ignorant person's actions - the thing is, the ignorant person knows better and the innocent person doesn't.
Expecting the student to know what the teacher hasn't taught yet seems odd to me. One goes to a teacher to get taught what one doesn't know, otherwise there'd be no teaching going on! While I'm a bit cheerleader for personal responsibility, that also extends to being a yoga teacher. If one assumes the role of teacher, one takes on certain responsibilities and power. It is up to the teacher to learn how to balance this responsibility and power, and to be conscious of the fact that they are in a position of trust and authority. It seem to me that abusing that kind of power and authority is an ignorant not an innocent thing to do. Just my perspective and personal sense of ethics, of course! -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 4:26 AMwhen will the p.c. bs stop ? -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 5:51 AMIn yoga there's these odd little things called "yamas"...
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 12:06 PMHi Fifi,
I never said the student should know what the teacher will teach. I said I think it's the students responsibility to educate their self on the type of practice they are walking into.. so lets not twist what I'm saying.
And what I said was that a person could be both Innocent and Ignorant. Not that those two things are the same thing. In reference to your sentence about drawing a distinction between these two terms and assuming that I don't. Again, I think there are Innocent / Child Like / Honest & Open Adults who can be Ignorant as well. Perhaps looking into what type of class Iyengar is, never dawned on them when if they had thought about it, this would have dawned on them. . making them Ignorant.
I think where your thoughts differ from mine is that all / most Ignorant people "prey" upon others because they are in "denial". (quotes used to emphasize words Fifi chose to define ignorance) I'm not convinced Ignorance is an automatic mode of denial so much as it is a lack of educating ones Self.
Also, so I can clarify something that you may not have understood about my initial post, I wasn't assuming the woman mentioned was an Ignorant person as I have to assume you think based on the first sentence of your first response to me. The whole thing brought ONE perspective to mind for me, out of many. The one that first came to my mind was how many people could construe Iyengar adjustments as "Sexual" when in fact they are not. That was my main point Fifi, and I'd like that to be clear. It wasn't a question of the woman mentioned in the article being Innocent OR Ignorant as I think you are getting confused about per your first response.
I AGREE with you that the woman in mention could easily have been Innocent and the Instructor was probably not a great guy considering the total outcome. My posting was to illustrate how a person could easily find their self in a new but strange scenario if they didn't do their homework on the type of class they were about to engage themselves in.
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 12:39 PMKatrina - There was no intent to "twist" what you were saying, that's simply how it came across to me (and communication is a two way street) so let's not twist this into something other than it was. My experience is that different teachers can teach the same form of yoga very differently (in fact, in Kripalu this is a given according to every, very different, Kripalu teacher I've had) so even if I read a book or informed myself I still wouldn't know what a specific teacher would be like or if all teachers are the same. I've found that even a husband and wife teaching Kundalini yoga at the same studio can teach very, very differently. This may not be your experience though and I'm not going to assume it is. We clearly have different understandings of "innocent" and "ignorant" and ideas about what the responsibilities of a teacher are - what kind of yoga do you teach? -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 12:48 PMOf course, the founder of Kripalu - Amrit Desai - was kicked out as guru by his students and followers for sexual misconduct (he preached celibacy but was using his position to obtain sex from female students). Power corrupts when it's not tempered with responsibility, honesty, respect and transparency. If one is attracted to a student or teacher there are entirely ethical ways to manage it and many yoga teachers do navigate these issues with integrity, honesty and clarity.
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 1:19 PMMy experience with Iyengar in my geographic area has been very very similar from one teacher to the next, physical manipulation is widely practiced & taught to teachers when they are in training thus passed on to students. It's not difficult for a potential student to call the studio and ask what to expect before taking their very first class in a new setting, is it? I've also seen newcomers walk into a Level 3 Vinyasa Class which is totally inappropriate, even though the class description is at the students finger tips. This however has nothing to do with how certain dynamics in certains forms of Yoga can be construed as "Sexual".
And I'd like to keep the conversation in Iyengar's context since that is what I know and quoted specifically as being on point with the main article. I don't know much about Kripalu Style Yoga so I can't comment on it, but if I was to take a class, I would certainly find out what's entailed first. I can't say whether Kripalu manipulates and if their manipulations can be considered as Sexual, which is what this topic is about.
To answer your question Fifi, (Cathy, sorry if this is off-topic) before I was pregnant I taught a fusion of Yoga that was clearly identified on a board, marked directly outside the class. I choose not to physically manipulate bodies, for the most part, because I thought it important to gain the trust of a student implicitly first. This takes a long time. The Liability issue ( as well as ethical responsibility) was also a concern for me so if I didn't know a students body and all physical limitations they were dealing with, I usually queued as much as I could verbally and chose not to manipulate so as not to hurt the student. This is often not my experience when practicing however.
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 12:59 PMFifi>> "Expecting the student to know what the teacher hasn't taught yet seems odd to me."
This was what I percieved you to be twisting. I agree that expecting the student to know what the teacher hasn't taught yet is an odd thing.. but why say that here if I didn't?
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 4:20 PMFifi,
I should mention that I think what you're saying is fair. A person can be both Innocent & Ignorant. Being Ignorant isn't a bad thing, it's just a dynamic that happens. This is just one point of view. You're right, I have no idea what actually happened, this teacher could or could not be molesting his students and I agree it's the Teacher's job to educate new comers as to what to expect while also being sensitive to the touch dynamic. All that being mentioned, I wanted to offer a perspective on something which I perceive to happen with New Students and I stand by people needing to be responsible for educating their selves first and foremost.
Cathy,
I felt my initial story was in a way related to the article. Was just my 1/2 a cents worth : ) -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 6:52 PMyes Karina
e links
tribe times out after 30 sec
cant do links
sorry
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 10:46 AMKatrina - Has Gabriel Halpern ever been charged or accused of sexually molesting and exploiting his students? -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 3:30 PMCathy,
do you have the link to that article? Yoga Journal probably has it on their website. Interesting stuff.
Thanks,
-Liz -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 1:19 AMYawn.... so what?
The response of attendees of such a class talking about it afterward can typically run from a warning to some to stay away, all the way to having quite a few more attend out of interest.
Frankly, the shocked by sexiness element can get really really tiresome. And even offensive to those who'd profit from transcending sophmoric boundaries. -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 6:46 AMBriggi,
I love ya -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 9:38 PMHi Katrina
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 7:10 AMcould someone find th elink?
I will rtry.
I brought it up becuse someone wrote on here about being pushed by her instructor.
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 8:53 AMBriggi - I'm not surprised you think slipping your hands down a student's pants for a free grope is all okay (or do you just talk out of your ass without even knowing what the teacher was charged with and blame the victim automatically?). Your attempts to pretend that all sexual abuses by yoga teachers are okay is tiresome, as are your insistences that it's always a student's overreaction and due to being "uptight". If someone is new to a class, they're not even a "sophomore". -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 2:47 PMHey...I am said gal. You know it HAS been interesting. Since I left his classes my yoga practice has gone no where and he is a talented and egnimatic teacher so I got in touch with him and suggested that I might go back to class and I told him that I needed boundaries around adjustments etc,. And he sent me a great email back BUT the night before I was supposed to go back I had insomina for the first time in 15 years so I could not go. The next day I walked to class at 7am and I could not go in.I was too afraid of him slamming me on the mat again. So I went home. I sent him an email letting him know that boundaries are important....I don't feel safe and I don't know what it would take for me to feel safe but I am not willing to take the risk, he probably thinks I am uptight but I didn't slam him on the mat! And maybe that wouldn't hurt him but it did hurt me! I think its cavalier not to assume that boundaries are important for a yoga teacher to respect. My opinion! Peace! -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 3:44 PMBeth,
What was his response to your feelings, out of curiosity? That was a pretty terrible thing to happen. We, as people not just teachers should have boundaries that respect ourselves and others.
Were you comfortable with his response to the situation?
K -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 7:55 PMWell....he has not got back to me. I am sensitive and I am a woman. I think by defenition, at least in this interaction, that sets us up for something....particularly because their is an obvious attraction of some kind. I don't know...I really don't. I just know how I felt and what he did did not feel right or good. The fact that does not seem to bother him is something I will have to live with if I continue at that yoga studio. I volunteer there and the owner of the studio is aware of what happened but only thanked me and no one has apologized. I am not sure what to do except I have all but given up on yoga and I am still volunteering. I don't really have it in me to be a victim again....its too familiar a role....so I will just be polite to all but I know it was wrong!! Peace! -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 9:43 PMI hope yo dont mind.. I am going to say what I sense..
that volunteering there with nothing ended .. is in a way contintuing to be a vicitm.
Without an apology... and still in a way subjugating yourself to the studio.. without an apology from the owner or apology from the teacher.. then you are drifting in uncertain victimhood.
I am not sayign it is easy to break through.
And I hope that you do not take my comment as mean. I am saying how it seems to me. To regain your strength you need soem closure..
eitther demand for yourself soem apology or new policy from the studio
Or simply leave he studio.
there are plenty of places to volunteer.. plenty or them.
with spiritual overtones or go the other way and volunteer with teaching kids any healthy sport or activity.
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 11:27 AMBeth,
So you're still volunteering but not able to reap the benefits of Yoga because a teacher was pretty damn inconsiderate and out-of-line. That sucks my friend. Period. Especially if you liked what he was teaching. Are there any others teachers you're interested in at the Studio? Maybe a trip to another class might be of benefit to ease back in to Yoga.
This is going to sound kooky and maybe even offensive, but I truly don't mean it to be and what I'm about to say is dualistic in nature.. know that it doesn't excuse the teachers bad behavior. Intrinsically, I feel like we're presented with certain situations that are an opportunity for us to move past what our Soul is deciding is an "old" dynamic for us. So in one sense, the teacher's a complete jerk who lacks common sense and probably shouldn't be teaching... In a bigger sense (and in a sense that he's probably not aware of) maybe he's a saint and the cosmic plan was for you to experience something which was fearful and unpleasant for a reason.
Back to the land of reality for me - The unfortunate thing is that there are always going to be situations that jarre us, even in the supposed 'safest' of environments. Not everyone is a Warrior and not everyone is a Victim. In the end, you'll have to choose your level of Fear and how that Fear is allowed to steer you or how you release it and run head long into Life.
Yoga is supposed to be a safe place and it's also a place to grow. What the teacher did was wrong, IMO. Do you think, even if you got past the Fear of something similar happening again in his class, that you'd be able to focus on your practice while in his presence? Because, if you can't let go and not feel apprehension towards him, even if you could walk into the class again, I don't think it would be beneficial for you. For me, Yoga is often about a complete lack of control and Fear. (emotionally speaking) I think feeling Safe is an important aspect in this dynamic.
Do you feel like this experience brought up any old memories up for you? I totally understand if that's not something you're comfortable sharing publicly.
K
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 9:18 PMFiif:
Don't gross me out. If you're gonna get all gross, I'll tell people and they'll not wanna be around if you're going to be that way.
So just be nice and just be sincere... and things will sort themselves out. ...those who are not cut out for your style will fall by the wayside as it should be ... and those who are meant to will stay the course.
nuff sed
Luv yall anyway
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 7:59 AMJust like in Reiki, the healer or teacher should always request permission to touch the student in order to instruct. -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 6:08 PMWell....I have decided, for now, not to leave the yoga studio but not take any classes from him. I am just letting it go...for now...and will try to focus, instead, on my own practice which, coincidentally, had a lot to do with my own boundaries and the wisdom in my own body. I am not going to engage in a male female thing or get into a power struggle. I don't agree with his methods and an apology would be nice but I am just take care of my side of the street. This instructor will keep doing this and hopefully things will change but I don't have to worry about it anymore because I am not taking classes with him. Thankfully!! Peace!
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 29, 2009 - 11:57 AMI recently took a yoga class in another city while visiting family members.
I made sure to look at the bio of the teacher online. I think it's important to get a good understanding of the style and demeanor of the teacher you're going to before hand. Even if a person doesn't have a firm grasp on the style, a lot can be gained from just reading about the teacher. Of course when you're first starting out, that may not be in your awareness to do, but over the years I've found that when I just research a little, I avoid teachers who don't jive with me.
In his bio, it mentioned he was a Thai Yoga Practitioner. The style basically allows the person being worked on to relax while the pracitioner uses the energy meridians and pressure points of the body to assist in opening. Towards the end of the class we were on our backs in a hip opener, drawing the knee and leg back towards the head, sort of like a happy-baby laying down. In any case, he came over to me and assisted me in a way that I haven't ever been touched in a yoga class. If I remember correctly he had a palm on each thigh, pulling apart while manipulating me and doing some movements, it was definitely close to the crotch but definitely NOT sexual. I had enough awareness of my body and the way people touch to know it was not that. However, had I not read his bio, I could have definitely seen myself thinking, "This may be innapropriate."... I've been to Thailand, had Thai Yoga before, know what that feels like, and it still took me a minute to realize that he was in fact doing thai yoga to help me open. So, it was part of my own insecurities mixed with what was going on. I think that's natural. It was absolutely wonderful how he blended it and it was the best assisted opening I've had in a class. It was sensual, but I don't know if Thai yoga can be classified as anything other than sensual. And that was OK. He asked permission and confirmed what he was doing was OK for my body.
A lot of times in yoga, sensuality can be misconstrued as sexuality OR vice versa. That's not to say that either are appropriate but in some styles, sensuality is more naturally apparent due to hand and "junk" placement...haha I love that word, "junk" lol.... That sense is going to be felt by the student. It's a delicate balancing act to adjust and it's not only the teacher's responsiblity to know what they're doing, it's also up to the student to tell a teacher they don't want to be touched. I have no idea about this specific incident in the YJ article but it makes you wonder what the dynamics were that allowed for that to happen. Or if anyone told anyone to STOP. It's really a shame, no matter who's "fault" it is. -
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Re: article in Yoga Journal about a yoga teacher being sued for sexually touching women
Thu, January 29, 2009 - 6:23 PMWell said Julie. I'm not always as eloquent as I'd like to be. (junk... hehe) My Father was a very "black and white" Chicago South Sider.. I'm guessing that rubbed off on me a bit. But you eloquently encompassed what I crassly attempted to say : ) and then some.
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