yogic diet - questions about protein and caffeine

topic posted Tue, August 18, 2009 - 9:10 AM by  GonzaBee
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Namaskar radiant beings!

Hello all,

I have a few questions about the yogic diet, and certain foods that my body just can't seem to function without. I have been practicing yoga on and off since adolescence and have in the past few years gotten much more into my practice and have been wanting to adopt the Sattvic diet. However my body seems to have issues when it comes to protein and caffeine.

1. I have been trying to go full vegetarian (ovo-lacto) for three years now, however I find that when I don't eat at least some animal protein my body feels sick and weak. When I first began "vegetarianism" I allowed myself to eat seafood about 2-3 times a week, I realize that fish are of course animals too and took them out of my diet. However during the times that my diet has been completely meat free (which have lasted anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months) I find that I feel weak/get sick more easily.

I try to get protein from other sources, I have a fruit protein - yogurt - fruit - flax shake every morning, and then lunch and dinner generally consist of rice and vegetables, a pasta, or a tofu/bean dish. I try to eat nuts but I have a slight allergy to many tree nuts so don't consume them often.

As much as I'd like to cut out meat completely, it seems that my body just needs some meat in the diet. Has anyone else had a similar issue with protein deficiency in the yogic diet? What foods do you suggest as a solid substitute for meat? I feel like I have tried everything!

2. I love caffeine, I work with kids at my day job and need to be very active during my work hours. But I know that caffeine is a) not good for the body in general, b) not good for mindfulness. There must be a way for me to find this vibrant energy source naturally within my body through yoga, meditation, chakra opening - but I haven't found it yet.

Yoga makes me feel great, it helps me relax and find peace and happiness - but it does not give me energy. Does anyone have suggestions of specific asanas or sequences or meditations that energize you? Maybe an energizing morning sequence? I don't expect to be wired from yoga but I always hear people commenting that yoga has increased their energy level so much, and for me I find it relaxing.

Thanks in advance for all your advice!

Namaste,

Rittamatra
posted by:
GonzaBee
Milwaukee
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  • hi,
    I also have to have meat. I was reminded of that the other day when I took a bite of steak. I felt immediate energy. I had been doign the egg, yogurt, protein powder, nuts, rice.. .thing and meat is important fo rme.

    I love coffee.. but it is likely not that great for me.

    thank you for being so honest and talking.
  • I dunno, you may have to eat meat, but I totally resonate with your not wanting to. Here are some thoughts. . .

    In chinese medicine, which I study, meat is considered a blood tonic. . . other foods, however, can impair the quality of the blood. excesive sugar, excessive pasteurized dairy, wheat and refined grains. . . since you have a nut allergy, you're probably sensitive to food in general, so things like soy, wheat, eggs, dairy (other common allergens) may be a problem, even if not as obvious as nuts. SO, if you're compromising your system with foods such as these, the heavy blood-tonifying properties of meat might be serving you.

    another question: how much meat do you eat, when you are eating it? one approach, if you feel at this time that meat is beneficial, is to use it only in medicinal doses - i.e. 3 ounces per day max, or maybe just a few times a week. then in the meantime you can experiment with refining your diet further, with the goal of greater balance, and perhaps eventually letting the meat go as well.

    Godspeed and great discernment
    Zeke
    • Hi Gonza Bee,

      I hope my words will help. I was a vegetarian for 12 years (even a vegan for at least 6). I strongly *believed* in this diet, despite what doctors told me. I still believe it is the most compassionate of ways to eat, however, we cannot ignore what our individual bodies need. I am an O negative blood type, and I understand that I am supposed to eat meat and dairy. However, even if I didn't read that information in a book, I just KNOW that my body needs it. When I began eating fish and a little poultry 2 years ago, I knew my intuition was right. It broke my heart to eat meat, but I don't think it follows yogic teachings to abuse oneself in order to save another, right? You have to do what you feel is right. Please keep in mind that the yogic diet comes from the East where many people there have an A blood type, which is the blood type best suited for vegetarianism. So if you are descended from the Mediterranian like me, or even other parts of Europe, you need everything in your diet. While I love the yogic teachings and hold onto them about almost everything in my life, when it comes to nutrition, I think it's important to listen to your body and decide for yourself what is right for you.
      • also as far as caffeine goes, I try not to consume it, because it makes me crazy jittery, but my husband can drink it and fall right to sleep. again, it's all about what it does to your individual body.
        • Greetings Friends
          I am thinking now about protien, and what first comes to my mind is Hemp seeds. 3 table spoons of hemp seeds have 11 grams of protien. Also i dont know what kind of nuts your allergic to but theres sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds(make tahini in coffee grinder), etc...Raw vegetables have the highest levels of protein- like kale, spinach, chard, collards, etc... Spirulina and other green algaes are excellent for protien and B vitamins. It could be youre missing your B vitamins, which you can get from fermented foods(kombucha, saurkraut, pickles, kim chi, fermneted nut cheeses) and B also comes from spirulina. Coconut water and coconut meat are reallllly excellent for sustainable energy. Sometimes i make a cookie of dates or raisins, bee pollen, nuts or seeds, coconut, molasses(vitamins), flax seed powder; all in the food processor; and i dont need much else than this. Its very nice energy. I am vegan now, it kind of just evolved this way to avoid eating dairy, not by dogma. Also this happened with vegatarianism for me 2.5 years ago, i just slowly stopped eating meat and it hurt my stomach to eat it.
          You could also just be needing a balance of the texture of the foods. Like meat is very heavy and slow to digest, so eating fruits may upset your homeostasis and throw you 'out' of balance if youre used to eating meat.
          Its easy to transition when you can focus on that. Maybe if you have some time off soon when you can totally adjust to a new diet, this might be helpful. Especially i feel like this would help you to leave caffiene.
          I have been eating raw food for 8 months now and i feel so great, my senses are sooo much clearer and i am aware on deeper levels. its almost like a meditation. I have studied different things, and one book was very helpful Vibrant Health- By Doctor Norman Walker. He lived to be 114 and his diet was primarily raw vegetables and fruits. You may also benefit from this.
          Love Nicolas
          • my first thought upon reading your post GonzaBee was *baby coconut flesh*.. turns out i wasn't the only one :D so yes i absolutely second AnahataDas' post..
            also i like to include hemp seed oil in my diet~ it contains great proteins!
            and would like to thank everybody for all these great posts as this is where i'm at also! (i ate an egg today in my salad and felt utterly wrong about it.. although i am still eating seafood a couple of times a week - usually raw in sashimi/sushi form)

            i am drinking coffee also - green coffee with added Chinese herbs.. i suppose it's not optimal for a yogic diet.. but it is known to bring on a restful sleep if drunk just before bed-time oddly enough!

            anyway hope you're feelin more vital these days!
            • K
              K
              offline 58
              I don't agree that all human need meat, but certain ones, like growing children do IMO.

              After 17 years of not eating meat I started eating seafood to support my protein needs during pregnancy and nursing. Our goal is to someday live on a sailboat, so to me it's less harmful to the environment to stick a fishing pole in the water for my food than to have my beloved Quorn patties shipped frozen to me in the middle of the Caribbean. By the way, this is a great pocket guide when shopping for fish: www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/s...aspx. But I can't say if it has made me feel better or worse because my body has gone through such a dramatic shift with pregnancy.

              Also--Synergy is right--phytoestrogens in soy are powerful. I had to dramatically cut soy from my diet as it was really screwing with my reproductive system (which was temperamental to start with). I had debilitating cycles and was not able to ovulate--that's how much it messed with me. Cutting it back, limiting it to some occasional soy sauce has really helped me.

              Ah, caffeine. The truth is we live in a hectic world and with so many people working two jobs just to survive, it's hard to cut out the stimulus that keeps them from walking into walls in the morning. But I'm not convinced that caffeine in moderation is such a bad thing. The benefits of green tea are amazing--just the repair to the liver alone is astounding. I read a lot of the research and it's pretty impressive. Granted you have to drink 5 cups to get the test-level benefits, but you can get decaf green tea for the afternoons.

              But at the end of the day, trust your body. Some people, for example, can't tolerate wheat gluten (the protein in meat substitutes like seitan), and others cannot tolerate soy well. So if your body cannot tolerate meat substitutes, and you're feeling really lousy, then adding some animal protein might be what you need to maintain health.
  • . . . karma . . .

    Fri, August 28, 2009 - 7:04 PM
    ~ Aloha ~

    It is said that certain vegetables can be combined to provide the necessary building blocks for a "complete" protein.

    Potential allergens/sensitivities may be troubling you. Some people free up more energy when gluten is eliminated from their diet.

    Perhaps practicing more back bends will open energy up.

    There is Truth in Silence,

    ```.
    `3~
  • the whole thing about yoga is that You tell your body what to do, not the other way around.
    It's all about overcoming your animal self.
    Sure you're going to have withdrawal symptoms. Your body has it sweet --- you giving it all it asks for and more. Now take charge; take control and do what you Know is good for you.
    It's up to you.
    ---and you're the one who benefits from doing it truly right.
  • I hear you. After ten years, I am a vegetarian (ovo-lacto.) However, I do not say that I will never eat meat again. Be kind to yourself. I drink one cup of espresso in morning, and "fuel" up on eggs because my work for money demands this type of energy. I stay away from soy because I hear it depletes our intake of protein. Wheat grass juice might help you. Grow your own, get a juicer. Wheatgrass is as close to hemoglobin as you can get in a very direct way. Wheatgrass is what the cows chaw on, but we are not cows so a slow juicer helps.

    Drink lots of water.
  • Re: yogic diet - questions about protein and caffeine

    Wed, September 16, 2009 - 5:45 PM
    Human body needs meat, there is absolutely zero doubt .

    i try to avoid fatty meat/pork but i definetly eat chicken several times a week.
    like you, i get sickly and weak if I dont .

    it also helps repair the damage that over stretching can do .

    coffee is a double edged sword or whatever they say .
    i cannot have more than 1 cup per day or its like i'm tripping acid all over again .
    i love a good soy mocha but ... concerned bout phytoestrogens and all the sugar in the mocha base .
  • To wean oneself off meat, there are meat-like tofu-derived non-meats, like Boca or Tofurky.
    Tofu is soybean based. Soybeans are imbalancing and debilitating to one's estrogen levels. Even more disempowering for women. Avoid soy-based foods.
    To wean oneself off soy foods, try myco-proteins -- mushroom based non-meats, like Quorn or "Vegetarian Beef Chunks" from Taiwan made of mushroom stem, both of which have a meaty "mouth" with texture and taste like meat. Gluten & wheat based non-meat non-meatballs also can help one maintain, like in a sphagetti sauce.
    Then to wean off these non-meats go to raw/live foods.

    A pure vegan sattvic diet may provide one with all necessary nutrients. But difficult to maintain without the cultural suppports.

    If you're bound and determined to do the meat thing and have got yourself all convinced of it's merits, then take your meat in as pure and effective form as possible to get the most of it.>>
    - raw venison steak, ground and spread thickly on a slab of yeast bread.
    - fresh pork liver, diced and salted.
    - coldwater deepsea oil fish such as tuna, salmon, swordfish, seabass... in sashimi cuts.

    Meat contains stearates, which is a sort of naturally occuring steroid. This gives one a rush, however slight and hard to perceive on eating it. And it's that part of it that makes meat hard to kick. Meat IS a drug, and you'll want to approach it as such when refining your diet, instead of congratulating yourself on how you've overcome the newage yoga programming by going back to shoveling lard down your face for the great buzz.
    They say that quitting cigarettes is harder than stopping heroin. I quit nicotine in 1993. Even harder than that has been putting away red animal flesh out of diet. But I did it and there's no turning back.
    So
    let's move on.

    metta

    knowing what we know about the care and feeding of most poultry, and even then the high colesterol count of even organic free-ranging fowl, plus the reports from PETA, make domesticated birds a no-go zone for many.
    • K
      K
      offline 58
      I don't know if that comment about superiority was directed at me or not, but in no way do I think my decision made me feel superior to any new age programming. The only moral superiority I admit to feeling was when I was a strict vegetarian. I did lots of research and meditated on it for a year and realized that not adding seafood to my diet would have potentially harmed my child, and I chose my child's life over the life of fish. It was an agonizing decision for me and one I did not take lightly.

      Funny, when I gave up meat at age 19 it was one of the easiest things I ever did. I never once felt tempted or anything like that.

      I agree that too much soy is bad for most people (and like HFCS it's in everything in the US), but for menopausal women the phytoestrogens really help.

      The Chinese have a theory about the "seasons" of life, and I think it's appropriate to eat for the seasons of your life. But it's important to do it consciously. Scarfing down Big Macs without any concept as to how the animals were raised, treated, processed, etc. is going through life with blinders on.
  • coffee

    Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:59 PM
    Howdy,

    This line caught my eye.

    "But I know that caffeine is a) not good for the body in general, b) not good for mindfulness."

    I'm not sure where these ideas come from.

    Caffeine has been repeatedly shown in studies to increase concentration, alertness and focus. All of which would support the ability to maintain mindfulness. Various types of tea are frequently used in Buddhist traditions for the precise purpose of improving mindfulness.

    As long as one doesn't indulge to the point of jitteryness (or to the point that one gets a "caffeine crash") caffeine should actually favor the development on mindfulness to at least a limited extent.

    While there are some negative aspects to coffee consumption, medical science in the past decade (and to a lesser extent before) has been uncovering a number of important health benefits for coffee. Coffee contains antioxidants that likely have health benefits including cancer prevention and improved heart health. Coffee can reduce the risk of Parkinson's by 80%. Coffee can produce an 80% drop in the risk of liver cirrhosis. Coffee can reduce the risk of diabetes by more than 50% in men and 30% in women. Coffee can reduce the risk of gallstones by nearly 50%. Coffee reduces risk of colon cancer. Coffee can help with asthma. Coffee can stop a headache. Coffee can boost mood. Coffee can prevent cavities. Coffee is even a "performance enhancing drug" that positively impacts physical and cognitive performance on a whole range of tasks. Coffee can even mitigate the damage caused by drinking alcohol and smoking

    Just thought I'd add another perspective.
    Ryan
    • Re: coffee

      Sat, October 24, 2009 - 6:46 PM
      K-- I've got your back. I recently started eating fish after 12 years of strict vegetarianism. The fact is that there will always be vegetarians who judge people like us and to me it's not worth trying to post a defense. They're gonna pull out there statistics and try to tell you what is best for your body, when you know that you didn't take eating fish lightly. I know I didn't take it lightly at all, but after 2 years, I still believe it was the best move I made for myself.
      • K
        K
        offline 58

        Re: coffee

        Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:01 AM
        Hey, you're an O-neg too! I heard about the blood type diet, but I'm not sure I believe it though. I listened to enough flack for more than 10 years from my family to know that people have strong opinions about what you are eating because it made them question their beliefs and they didn't like it. I do know that what is right for one person is wrong for another and what was right for me five years ago is wrong for me now, but may be right again in five years.

        I was sometimes very preachy as a vegetarian, like questioning how people can hunt can call themselves Christians (thou shalt not kill and all that). So I'm trying, though of course not always succeeding, to try and respect other people's decisions as long as they have put some thought and mindfulness towards them, which many people don't do--they see a commercial for McDonalds and Pavlovian psychology takes over. Shoot, there's that preachiness again! Got to work on that.
  • I eat meat. Rarely, though I do, mostly in the form of free range Organic eggs and the occasional free-range Chicken. I appreciate the food I put in my body. I realize what it is I'm taking away from it to ingest it and I'm thankful to the animal because it truly is giving up it's life so I can live mine. Like many of us do, in emotional, mental and physical ways for the people and things that we love.

    Although the main difference between the two points is that the animal is never given the choice to give up it's life. Even the free range , humanely brought up animals that we take far better care of. Then again, I wonder to myself, if we weren't bringing the animal up to ingest it, it most likely wouldn't be there in the first place, so.....

    Also if you step on an ant, are you devastated by it's death? If you hit a wasp or bee away from you and it dies is it as great an injustice as killing an animal to eat it? To me, life is life and being ok with an animal humanely dying so I can eat it is the same as walking around without paying absolute and total attention to where I'm stepping 24/7. One's intentional and one is not however I say again, life is life and I AM capable of paying constant attention to where I walk just like we all are but we make the choice not to and I'm sure we're all aware that we kill things when we walk. Even though I intentionally eat meat and some of you may think that stepping on the ant is ok because it's unintentional. At least I realize what it is I'm doing and not choosing ignorance. I don't think an ant's life is more valuable than a chicken's, ASIDE from the fact that a chicken's can feed more of my family than an ant's could. And I realize that I choose to walk on life without paying constant attention to where I'm stepping. (what a metaphor right?! But I mean this literally) And why is an animals life so much more important than a plants... The list goes on, see where I'm going with this?

    I'm similar to you in that I start to whither away, can't keep weight on and don't feel right when I eat vegetarian. I would like to stay away from being responsible for the death of anything else as much as I can, BUT I am alright with eating small amounts of meat that I do appreciate. I am one that thinks it's kind of different than shoveling bacon & eggs down my throat every Sunday morning without a thought in my mind that what I am eating was once alive. I don't choose ignorance, I consciously understand what it is I'm doing, I'm for the most part, alright with it as long as the animal lived in something other than it's own filth, had room to live and was generally taken care of well. I'm definitely NOT ok with eating animals that are mass produced. I will pay twice the price to know something I and my family are eating was taken good and decent care of.

    Maybe all of this doesn't make me a Yogi, or only an unenlightened Yogi : ) Either way, I don't really care much. I do the best I can at this point. Like most of us are.
    • Taking life always poses complicated ethical & moral issues. And there is no easy answer.
      Animals are here to serve us, or so it says in scripture, both King James and AyurVedic... (your choice).

      I choose to be vegetarian-vegan based on simple biological grounds --- for the sake of keeping my body healthy.
      But if I can help a warm furry critter find joy along the way then so much the better.

      If you are responsible for feeding others or kids, then give them the best and most nutritious food you know of that will meet or exceed their needs.

      Do the best you can under your circumstances to eat and live as cleanly as you are able.
  • Rittamatra:

    I'd not worry so much about what you've heard what's right and not for you. I went vegetarian for a number of years and then starting eating some meat again - didn't notice a damn bit of difference.

    Go for your cup of java in the morning or whenever and don't worry about it. Everything in moderation.

    Go with the diet that works for you and put that chapter behind you.
    • K
      K
      offline 58
      Thanks Briggi, for finding a middle ground on this and being able to accept the position of others.

      I know the United Nations has recently said that we should all be vegetarians for the sake of the planet. Having read the data on how much energy it takes to produce a pound of beef versus a pound of grain, I know that a vegetarian diet is better for the planet.

      But I don't think it's for everyone, including many growing children. A simple example. We feed my son meat plus some good veggie staples, like hummus and beans. For a while he started eating more dairy less meat. His sleep problems were vicious--not only would he wake up a lot but also he would flair wildly in his sleep. Needless to say it made for hellish nights. After reading about restless leg syndrome being an iron deficiency we decided to feed him liver paste. I had been sneaking in all the spinach I could into his diet but heme iron (animal based) is easier for the body to absorb. Even though I found it disgusting to make, the liver paste helped tremendously--his body didn't twitch nearly as much at night. When he's older I'll support whatever decision he makes about diet, but while he's still a very young child, I have observed that feeding him meat is the right thing for his little body.
      • Re: yogic diet - questions about protein and caffeine

        Tue, November 10, 2009 - 10:08 AM
        Nut butters made of macadamias & pine nuts run through the blender, taken with the spinach as dressing will catalyze the body's ability to metabolize nutrients from raw live food.

        The analog to this in meat eater's world is raw very fresh firm pork liver served in small cubes lightly sprinkled with coarse sea salt alongside quality yeast bread. Wild harvested game like venison furnishes an even cleaner lean mineral rich organic liver.
        However problem is this culture does not support eating it raw. The media presents food as fun.
        In contrast the Chinese would understand food as medicine.
        • Organic liver? No thank you. Give me some chicken and pasta with a white wine, garlic, oil, and mushroom sauce. A bottle of old vine zinfandel does wonders for the attitude. I'm sorry but I have to keep up my strength.
          • See what I mean about Americans insisting that food be a fun experience, or else a gourmet lifestyle choice?

            In yoga we take the opportunity to meditate on our body requirements, and then fulfill those needs in a wholesome way. Having centered on a path, one keeps focused to it for meaningful results.

            Maybe raw wild game, including heart, kidney, liver, sounds hardcore to some. But there's your best healthiest clean proteins plus stearates delivery vehicle, for the meat fanciers.

            I get to feeling decadent when I do fettuchini al funghi pomodoro San Marzano with chianti more than once per week on spaghetti night. And that would make me feel depressed. I like blonde wines so much that they inevitably give me a headache from too much --- so to be safe I stick to reds.