The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

topic posted Sun, July 20, 2008 - 2:34 PM by 
The three gunas, Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas are one of the most fundamental and important topics in yoga philosophy. Anyone who is interested in yoga philosophy, psychology, or transformational meditation should be familiar with these concepts. Out of kindness and desiring to feed the hungry seekers of truth, I have published a short and eminently readable introduction to the subject at:

samkhya-yoga.blogspot.com

Comments are welcome. Criticism is likely to be met with vigorous and well-reasoned defenses.

Sam
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  • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

    Mon, July 21, 2008 - 7:01 AM
    vigorous and well-reasoned?

    sounds already like you wish a fight
    • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

      Fri, July 25, 2008 - 6:51 PM
      cathq,

      "vigorous and well-reasoned? "

      This is known as 'tongue in cheek'.

      "sounds already like you wish a fight"

      I don't mind a little healthy debate, not that there's much to debate about. I tend to defend my positions when I think I'm right, and people generally have to present a good argument to convince me that I'm wrong. Most of this essay though, is not about my personal beliefs. What I really want is for somebody to read it.

      Sam
  • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

    Sat, July 26, 2008 - 11:26 AM
    Nice article Sam about the three gunas, I have just one question, could you explain " serving the purpose of restraint." comment that was given for Tama Guna.

    In the Uddhava Gita there is also a very nice section about the Three modes titled, "The Three Modes of Nature and Beyond" vedabase.net/sb/11/25/en
    • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

      Sun, July 27, 2008 - 6:18 PM
      Nityananda C,

      Thank you for your interest in this post. Regarding your question:

      'could you explain " serving the purpose of restraint." comment that was given for Tama Guna. '

      This is a very good question. "Serving the purpose of restraint" is taken directly from the Samkhya-Karika attributed to Isvara Krishna. I hesitated to include it because I'm not sure I fully understand it. I decided to leave it in because I believe it is significant.

      I believe it refers to restraint of the self to the material world.

      Sam
      • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

        Mon, July 28, 2008 - 9:04 AM
        "Serving the purpose of restraint" seems to be the quality of inertia exemplified by tamas. Whereas rajas is activity, tamas is that which restrains activity.
        • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

          Mon, July 28, 2008 - 11:44 AM
          Hmm I could see that, what causes the confusion is that Tama guna may restrain Raja activity, however one who is influenced by tama guna is not necessarily a restrained person. Like heavy drug use is of the Tama Guna nature, which will restrain the activity of a person but such a person, being uncontrolled in their drug use, cannot be called restrained.
          • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

            Tue, July 29, 2008 - 2:01 PM
            Absolutely.
            I think addictions have elements of both tamas and rajas - tamas being the nature of an addictive substance which dampens activity, and rajas being the type of unrestrained or obsessive behavior to indulge in the substance.
        • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

          Sun, August 3, 2008 - 11:43 AM
          Ezekial,

          "Whereas rajas is activity, tamas is that which restrains activity." ... You are right in the sense that the gunas are seen as opposing forces. But curbing the passions of rajas is generally understood to be a function of sattva, which is why "serving the purpose of restraint" is puzzling with respect to tamas.

          My interpretation is a little more convoluted. If you follow the evolution of Prakriti, the tamasic tan-matras evolve into the gross elements, which restrain the purusa (soul or self) to place and time.

          There is another possible explanation. In Yoga Sutra 1.30, Patanjali mentions several obstacles to yoga. Looking at what are called obstacles, it becomes apparent that they are all elements of tamas. So it can be said that tamas restrains a person from achieving yoga or any other goal for that matter.

          Sam
    • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

      Wed, July 30, 2008 - 5:52 PM
      Nityananda C.,

      Thank you for the link to the Srimad Bhagavatam.

      The appearance of the Samkhya philosophy in the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita demonstrates the substantial influence of Samkhya in ancient India. In some respects, these works offer much in the way of explanation. But in other respects the original teaching was modified to suit the purposes of the religious establishment.

      The authors of the both Srimad Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita revered Kapila (the original author of the Samkhya system) as a Christ-like figure and some (but not all) of his teachings were given the force of divine revelation. In his own work though, Kapila himself did not rely on claims of divinity or divine revelation. For example, his non-theistic version of Guna theory is based on observations of nature and the application of logic, similar to modern scientific methods. For this reason, I believe the original (and more ancient) Samkhya is better suited to modern western culture.
      • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

        Wed, July 30, 2008 - 11:35 PM
        Thank you, there is however two different famous ancient samkhya philosopher personalities by both the name Kapila. One is the son of Devahuti as described in the Bhagavatam, that is why that section is titled Teachings of Lord Kapila, the Son of Devahuti lordkapila.com/en and the other Kapila, which seems to be the personality that you are mentioning. One is theist, the son of Devahuti and the other is non theist.
        • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

          Sat, August 2, 2008 - 7:16 AM
          "there is however two different famous ancient samkhya philosopher personalities by both the name Kapila."

          Wow. That's quite a coincidence isn't it? Two ancient philosophers, both with the same name, both teaching different versions of the same thing? That's a little hard to swallow.

          But in a sense there are two Kapilas. One is the author of the Samkhya-Pravachana-Sutram, the other is the stuff of legend found in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Do you think the two could be related somehow? Perhaps the legendary Kapila is based on the real one.

          Sam
          • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

            Mon, August 4, 2008 - 8:03 AM
            >>>>>>>>
            Wow. That's quite a coincidence isn't it? Two ancient philosophers, both with the same name, both teaching different versions of the same thing? That's a little hard to swallow.
            >>>>>>>>

            Not hard to swallow at all. Indic religious history is full of examples of multiple sages teaching similar material under the same name.

            In my own tradition, the name Krsna (aka Kanha) is shared by at least 3 different individuals who taught yogini-tantras within the mahasiddha cultural milieu .

            Likewise there were apparently many Nagarjunas teaching Buddhist philosophy, tantric soteriological methods, magic and alchemy, kama-shastra techniques etc.

            Given the notorious difficulty in dating Sanskrit texts, a certain amount of conflation is almost inevitable.

            Warm Regards,
            Ryan
            • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

              Sat, August 9, 2008 - 7:01 PM
              Ryan,

              "Indic religious history is full of examples of multiple sages teaching similar material under the same name. "

              I'm sure that's true, but in the case of Kapila, both his mother and father are named in the Srimad Bhagavatam. This seems to purposely narrow things down to one individual.

              It is well known that the original teachings of Kapila were modified by later writers, because they were considered atheistic or at least in disagreement with the more prevalent religious interpretations of the Vedas. There are those who believe that the Samkhya system was actually developed to oppose the dominant religious practices and beliefs of the time.

              A little research will reveal that there are still those who say that the original Sutras were lost (suppressed), and for a long time all of the commentaries were based on the Samkhya Karika, which was attributed to Krishna. Around the 15th century, two commentaries were written on the Samkhya-Pravachana-Sutram. Someone apparently had preserved at least a portion of the original work. The style and content of this work is much different from the religious texts. It's impossible to be certain that the entire text was written by Kapila himself, but it's clear that most of it was composed by a person of extraordinary intellect.

              Sam
              • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

                Sun, August 10, 2008 - 10:08 AM
                I have no doubt you are correct. I was commenting more generally about the fact that it isn't improbable to have more than one person with the same name, teaching similar material, in the same religious tradition. You seemed to have suggested it is unlikely, but in fact it appears to be fairly common.

                Regard Kapilain particular, I will defer to your greater knowledge in this area.
                • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

                  Sun, August 10, 2008 - 12:55 PM
                  Ryan,

                  I'm aware of the practice of different writers contributing to a text in the name of the original author, sometimes over extended periods of time. Regarding multiple people with the same name teaching similar material in the same religious tradition, if you know of other instances, then I'll have to take your word for it. I think it's unlikely in the case of Kapila. It's more likely that the legendary figure was based on the actual historical figure.

                  I should point out that the Srimad Bhagavatam refers to Kapila in the third person. While statements are attributed to Kapila, there is no doubt that the author is someone else. On the other hand, the Samkhya-Pravachana-Sutram is supposed to be the work of Kapila himself. Since that work was said to be lost for many centuries, it seems unlikely that there would be other writers contributing to it in the name of Kapila. Also there would not have been much motivation to do so, considering that the Samkhya Karika was used as the primary source during that time.

                  Patanjali's Yoga Sutras are a good example of a case where it is thought that several authors may have contributed to the work. But in that case, it appears seamless and takes an expert to spot the differences. In this case we are talking about two different works and obvious conflicts between them.

                  There are those in positions of authority who say that the Samkhya-Pravachana-Sutram was a later work, claiming that the commentator Vijnana-Bhiksu was the author. But it seems fairly obvious even to a non-academic lay person like myself that the original work pre-dates Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the Samkhya-Karika, the Srimad Bhagavatam, and the Bhagavad-Gita. One has to wonder about the motivations of those who claim that this is not so.

                  Incidentally, the Samkhya-Karika is faithful to the original work, even though it is very much condensed. Although it has been attributed to Krishna, there is substantial doubt that he was the real author.

                  Sam
  • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

    Thu, July 31, 2008 - 10:34 AM
    Yoga can be simple and in fact it is simple, quite lacking |||ntellect.
    • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

      Sun, August 3, 2008 - 11:25 AM
      Amanda,

      "quite lacking |||ntellect." Hmm...sounds intellectual.

      "Yoga can be simple and in fact it is simple" ...I can't argue with that. Lots of people practice yoga simply as a form of exercise or maybe to help quiet the inner wheels. There's nothing wrong with that.

      Sam
      • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

        Mon, August 4, 2008 - 10:27 AM
        "Lots of people practice yoga simply as a form of exercise or maybe to help quiet the inner wheels. There's nothing wrong with that. "

        There certainly is nothing wrong with that. However I would argue that that is not 'yoga', but merely 'yoga-like exercise.' The purpose of yoga is liberation, period. And while, from what I understand, part of 'liberation' is transcending the intellect and thought in general, you certainly must use your intellect as part of that process.
        • Re: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

          Sat, August 9, 2008 - 7:34 PM
          Kevin,

          "I would argue that that is not 'yoga', but merely 'yoga-like exercise.' The purpose of yoga is liberation, period. "

          Technically, you're right. But remember that yoga is practiced on different levels. To the extent that practicing asanas focuses the mind, then people may be practicing yoga at some level, however unwittingly.

          "from what I understand, part of 'liberation' is transcending the intellect and thought in general, you certainly must use your intellect as part of that process."

          I guess it depends on how you define intellect. The process of self-realization involves learning about the teachings, subjecting them to reasoning, and most important, direct experience through meditation. Learning and reasoning involve using the intellect. Knowledge is sattva. Ultimately a seeker has to develop dispassion even towards that.

          Sam